Role Warfare: Role Specialization


#41

The Min/max issue is still there and min/maxers are still having power advantage :roll_eyes::roll_eyes:


#42

Omni, I get this, I really do. But I can’t help but feel disappointed when this line is used.

My wider point is that the Bronze Cooldown update plus buffs to Clyde, Gammond, Sapphyr and Galante don’t seem to fit the details mentioned in the Role Warfare: Role Specialisation update which was promised. See below.

This diagram gave me the distinct impression that Role Specialisation was the October Update.

Perhaps Clyde could fit into the “Mainline Attacker” profile - consistent and reliable damage. Though he is not “well rounded” due to his extremely small HP pool. But even then, is it supposed to be him alone under the entire category of Mainline Attacker? That’s not a category, it’s a single hero.

For Assassin… I’m not sure the October Update has introduced any “Assassin” types… if Sapphyr is supposed to fit the bill, I am not sure it can be said that her damage spike is near large enough.

And I also expected that there would be like, more DPS related buffs not just bronze skill cooldown improvements.


#43

Assassin types should be like Mauler that deal %damage. Dogface should be in the Mainline Attacker and his skills should have more recoil so his damage doesn’t become an assassin type and as a compensation maybe damage heroes on the same cover. They’ll need to do a lot of adjustments to make this role specializaiton work.

I think what they should do is focus on three heroes at a time and do hot updates to them every 3 days. It’s’ not that hard to take stats on character utilization. Let usage and win% be the metric on how effective the updates are. When they start to see a dent on panzer and dogface usage, they’ll know they are on to something.


#44

@Sogui
Well said. We lost three alliance members last week that just got tired of this and quit the game. My frustration comes from the fact that these changes weren’t asked for. The game was excellent before we started down this rabbit hole of role specialization. All that was needed were some tweeks here and a touch there to balance the less used heroes or the over used heroes. Instead HHG decided to re-invent the wheel.


#45

I lost my complete alliance that way, and I completely agree with sing


#46

You can join us, Drakonkings, if you’re lonely now. We didn’t lose a single one but I can kick one of the lazy bounty hunters.


#47

He already has a new ally :wink:
Wondered why he left his own, sad to hear that this is the reason.


#48

Drakonkings? Or what did I miss haha


#49

It’s the name of the alliance I took over a few months back. You can join. We talk about cats and stuff.


#50

They already have a handful of heroes that are pretty close to being viable, they are just missing one or two key features. In a lot of cases it’s their health and armor. Clyde got buffed but he is still a glass cannon. Why would I use him when he literally dies in 5-10 seconds when I can use Dog or Panzer who do just as much damage and have twice the stamina? Even if he did way better damage then them, it wouldn’t matter since a dead hero does no damage.

I think giving Clyde and Maven a 15-20% hp buff and a few thousand more armor (they are currently around 5k armor and 100-150k hp under Panzer and Dog) would drastically increase their usage. Make Maven’s silence travel a lot faster so it lands more, and/or make her cloud useful in PVP (disorient, slow, stun… make it do something to heroes caught in it and make it easier to hit them). Give Odachi 10-15% more hp and I think all three of these heroes would become viable.


#51

so role warfare is bullshit obviously… night-panzer are the dominating duo, idk who they are trying to convince that’s not true but obviously the devs suck at playing the game and that’s why they can’t see it, or they’re doing it on purpose… it has to be a mistake or it’s on purpose, and the more i hear ppl repeat this sentiment on the forums and social media, the more i’m starting to believe it’s a calculated plot. i’m not as angry and frustrated with pvp because i have my night upgraded, but i honestly feel like i’m cheating when i use her against people without her. they just don’t stand a chance, i suffocate them w panzer and night and i know it’s frustrating as hell cuz i was in their shoes for well over a month. but i’m not gonna stop using her and start losing again. any team without a night-panzer set up i beat in 30 sec or less, it’s too easy. when i play anyone with the same heroes, it’s a tough match and depending on who kills night (twice w ifrit) first is the winner. when i play the hardest players in the game, it’s a race to who kills caine and night first because then it’s game over lol… it’s so obvious idk how these devs don’t notice this???


#52

anyone that thinks i’m wrong, i BEG you to msg me (LUCY FORD) in the game and challenge me to a duel so i can show you what i mean. only condition will be i can use night and you can’t, any other heroes are ok. we can make it an even match so every hero is 8star and it’s as fair as can be


#53

It shouldn’t be to hard.
Step one nerf the top three (Panzer, Dogface, Nightingale).
Step two buf all other dps.
Step three change the armour mechanics.
Step four buf Hivemind’s survivability.

After that monitor usage and if there is too much variation between the top heroes and the bottom ones (let’s say more then 200%) buf and nerf accordingly.


#54

Stop crying nerf, jeez


#55


#56

Ok cool buf all heroes to have the same stats of Mandrake, Nightingale, Dogface, Ifrit and Panzer at platinum in each single hero.

Nerf / buf is a continuous cycle in most games that I have played. I don’t see a way arround. If you read my post you will also see that I recommend more bufs than nerfs.


#57

I’m going to go ahead and have a say. I find it highly disturbing that someone makes an entirely valid point but gets immediately shut down and ridiculed without any justifications.

Night has been a problem with the meta ever since her legendary skin is unveiled. Night was already powerful (but severely underrated, my favourite healer even then) before the skin, and now she can pretty much single-handedly negating the damage of the entire enemy team.

Look at your post-match reports.

I use Night often, I believe all of you do if you wish to win in PVP, but this is ridiculous. In every fight, her heals pretty much rivals the entire damage done by the whole enemy team. She heals more than the damage Panzer and Dogface can put through.

Now we look back at what the developers said in Role Warfare on Healing: Out-Healing incoming Damage will be much harder to achieve for a long duration, making Damage dealt by Heroes more permanent. Current healers and support now are in-line with that. Caine, Keel, Op, Flat and even Ifrit satisfy that. All except Night. Do you think this is what HHG wanted?

Just wanted to put forward that I find Night extremely unfun to play as (I use her, as I have to win) and against, and she is one of the main cause of the homogenous PVP meta.

Panzer and Dogface are in a healthy spot now, most other DPS just need a slight buff and they will be good to go. They just have no place when Night can neutralise all of your DPS by herself.

Just ranting to get my point across that Night is absolutely not healthy in the current state. Sorry if I sound rude or confrontational, I am just upset to see Rh4uko being attacked for pointing out something obvious. Defending Night right now is pretty much the same as defending Panzer in her release month. (which, by god, they were people defending her, I can’t believe it)


#58

I disagree. I have teams that can beat the burst+support teams, but they can’t beat them reliably enough to persuade everyone to rely on burst less. At 5 teams I use daily without overlap, most of which I haven’t seen anyone else use, I think I’ve been creative enough. I pretty much stopped at 5 teams because that was way too many heroes to keep upgrading. All of my teams use at least 1 high ROF DPS, and at least 2 rely entirely on high ROF DPS to do damage. The only things that these teams have difficulty with are burst+support teams.

A direct counter to burst damage does not have to be mandatory to affect variety in teams. It just has to exist as a serious risk to anyone who relies on bursts entirely, which is at least 70% of player teams out there now. It has to be present and effective enough to ensure that failing to bring a steady DPS is going to cause you to lose some hearts, but that hero wouldn’t be useful if you didn’t need to counter a burst. Bringing a burst and the counter has no advantage over bringing a steady DPS and the counter, so I don’t see what you are referring to.

Regarding panzer, if she doesn’t work for you after 30 seconds, I don’t think you are using her right. The reason she is very dangerous at that time (even without her plat skill, so it isn’t the buff) is that she can do a lot of damage in a short period. She “slows down” because you aren’t saving up for her next burst. Total damage per time is often the same, yes, but only if there are few or no healers. Panzer doing all of her damage between heals is what makes her good.

Finally, armor is not at the root of the problem that compels everyone to use burst damage only. If it gets “fixed”, the low ROF heroes would be at a severe disadvantage due to their poor unmitigated DPS. There would be no situation in which a low ROF hero would be better than a high ROF hero. Right now, lightly armored targets can be taken down far better with the high ROF DPS because their unmitigated damage is much higher than the low ROF DPS. It’s only in the presence of high mitigation that low ROF feels like an advantage. A fractional armor mechanic would have to be accompanied by a huge boost to low ROF unmitigated DPS to keep them relevant, whereas both types of steady DPS are currently useful. The only really serious imbalance is between burst and steady DPS. If you don’t believe me, try replacing dogface with salvatore.


#59

Keep in mine you run heimlock with her, that will boost her healing the first 30 seconds, since it’s team wide it looks a lot more then it is.

Also use dps instead of whole match numbers it will change the chart, cause right now you also show the healing over time with death hero’s, this doesn’t show anything.

I know she’s a great healer, but 1 good dps will burst away the healing she’s doing.

Problem is that healers like heimlock, gammond and matador need so much time they most likely don’t get their heiling done in time.

Without heimlock the legendary Nightingale skin is pretty useless

A good keel can get those numbers to, just saying


#60

I do have teams that beat the burst but those are 6 star silver versus 4-5 star gold. Which is a form of min maxing on my side (heroes all fairly equal though).

Do you beat them with heroes that are easily obtained and not part of the meta? Thinking of e. g. Nightingale, Heimlock, Ifrit?