PvP Drafting - Sneak Peek


#21

PVP is already overly tedious and lengthy. I have 60 heroes to grind through with matches that are already taking almost 3 minutes because of the last update and now let’s add another 30 seconds and a process. I just want to auto play my stuff because I don’t have the time to grind through ALL my heroes properly. If this is a permanent implementation, I’m sure I won’t be much longer for this game. Just say goodbye to my VIP 15.


#22

It’s sane to quit a habit that has become tedious and frustrating. Not everything stays the same forever and eventually things start changing in a way you don’t approve of. That’s the golden opportunity to enter a a cooldown and eventually quit. But please consider trying the new system out, wait for further details etc.
Please know that this is a sneak peak of an upcoming test-brawl so make sure to participate in given brawl so they can measure also the metrics from a sceptical player. Even if you qult it’s a good-doing for the other players who wanna keep playing in the future.


#23
  1. All heroes equalised:

Yes, for this particular brawl for testing purposes.


#24

Please do keep this classy before a mod shuts this down.


#25

As i underestand min/maxing wont be a problem cause in pvp every hero will be equal doesnt matter how you upgraded you will be equalized


#26

Min-Maxing started way before these guys.

That aside, the concept is interesting but I have to concur with the majority here. Extending the length of a single match seems counter productive given the the current concerns in the length of the average match. Which more often than not, hits the timer instead of an entire team being defeated. Which in itself is frustrating as you only get the number of pvp gems per hero killed. Meaning for a full 3mins of hard fought pvp, you might walk away with 20 pvp gems. This 3mins will further increase (to a currently unknown number) with the drafting phase playing out.

I do like the concept though, and perhaps could be reserved for specific events and not ALL pvp related events.

Until we try it out though … that is my 2 cents.

-Vestige


#27

@ULFPAM
You - as well as the devs - have my word that I will give every opportunity to try out the new system, to adapt to it, and to embrace it if I am able to. This is because fundamentally, I care about the game.

Let me just pause you there. This is the CORNERSTONE of the PVP Draft system and the PVP Draft System cannot function without this feature.

How else will one be able to match player A with player B into the raid lobby? What criteria will the system use to match players? Team power? Highest 5 heroes? Highest 10 heroes? Number of plats? Number of silvers? There are too many variables.

Let’s take an example. Player A, Level 62. Zero plats. Team power 180k. Fair to match him with Player B, Level 70, Team power 180k but with 5x 10-star plats? How does the system tell that these guys are a mismatch? Team power alone? Number of plats? But what if Player B wants to play his silver heroes for testing - he gets matched with another 180k player who pulls out his plats.

I’m actually curious about how you’d conceptualise matching… and if you don’t mind I’d like to challenge you to find a foolproof way of matching in the the PVP draft system without equalising all heroes. For each scenario that you come up with… I’ll try to find an exploit. If you’re up to the challenge… let me know.


#28

@Sing

You bring up an interesting point here.

IF this is to be used for all PvP events AND works they way it is illustrated thus far (hero normalisation). What is the point of an individual further upgrading their heroes? Bounty? Story mode? Gorgon wakes?

Just further my comment above, I think this will only work (as described above) by limiting it to select events.

-Vestige


#29

Thanks @vestige

And this is my point… if it is intended to REPLACE the existing PVP system… then the consequence is that it devalues every other meaningful upgrading attempt and achievement for your heroes.

But if it is NOT INTENDED TO REPLACE the existing PVP system… then the devs still have to develop a solution to the min-max issue.

And thinking about it, and reading between the lines… are the devs really trying to roll out 2 parallel solutions? PVP Draft, plus solve min-max? No one purposely gives themselves extra work bro.


#30

@Sing

I do this all the time >_< … its like poking a bruise … you do it just to check if it still hurts.


#31

It’s just for testing purposes. To make everyone be able to play this particular brawl to their maximum by making all their unlocked characters fully upgraded. The more people are able to play, the more data they will be able to collect, the better the result of the testing.
Once again, nothing in this states that they are planning to roll out equalisation as a norm. Please don’t panic in affect without even reading the full sentences.


#32

I am going to split hairs here …

Its in the opening statement. They are actively looking for a way to change how the PvP system works for hero selection - with ‘THIS’ being the current concept in mind to do just that. That in itself implies … they want to make a change to (this or what ever is finally decided on) ALL PvP events.

Granted it currently is slated for a single brawl as you quoted, and I certainly will partake in the event to the amount I would for any other event.

My feedback here is purely based on what Howitzer has posted and my own speculation on the grey areas not touched.

-Vestige


#33

I agree with you wholeheartedly. It’s great that they collect all this data.

I also agree with this. I’m sorry for panicking! I panic unnecessarily as my mother often tells me. I am not a chill person.

However, I have a few questions.

HHG collects all that wonderful data on the basis of equalisation of heroes. If it decides NOT to roll out equalisation of heroes as a norm but it wants to roll out non-equalisation PVP Draft instead… did it have any useful data to base that decision on? Did it have any useful data to roll out PVP Drafting and decide on the parameters of non-equalisation PVP Drafting? Nope. Zilch. You’d have to have another test.

Put it another way… before launching a product, you would want to make a preliminary test based on your vision of it being close to the end product wouldn’t you? This is so that the data that you collect could be useful to refine your product. Not to roll out something substantially different.


#34

Yes? The drafting system they are planning to make the norm if it works well.
Not the equalisation of character levels / powers <---- That part the state is only for testing the drafting system in ONE brawl in October.


#35

Those are fair question! I am looking forward to learn more about this.


#36

This leads into the point that @Sing brought up … how do you go about selecting your heroes fairly?

If one player during the draft decides to go full ham and select 5 x 10* plat heroes but you only have 3 x 8* plat heroes and a bunch of 8* golds?

Without the normalisation you get painted into a corner for a severely out classed match because you don’t have the heroes required to make a counter or even compete in raw power.

While writing this I did think up one possible solution to this, that is, when you select to enter, you specify a power bracket you want to compete at. And thus can only make a team that fits within that bracket and will only get matched against opponents that also want to compete within a similar power bracket.

-Vestige


#37

Nope. This just takes min-max to the same point that we are at. Because Sogui will choose 38k right? How is it different from what we have now?


#38

It wont solve the min/max issue, no.

But at least you don’t end up in a match where one side is 70k+ and another is ~38k

-Vestige


#39

@Sing

It will change in the manner Howizter talked about in the initial post. That is, the ability to pick a team that counters your opponents selection (in part).

To be honest, the more I re-read the post the more I am convinced that this is not an attempt to address min/maxing on any level or scale. More an attempt to break the healing/support wall that currently has a lock on the PvP meta.

There are some really good team compositions to deal with healing/support walls, but are destroyed by other teams not reliant on the same skills or mechanics. In a way, this allows you to build teams on the fly with a greater chance of success on a match by match basis.

-Vestige


#40

I like this idea and am excited to try it out!
Maybe we could incorporate banning in there too as the first draft round?

Draft Round 1: Banning

  • Each player chooses 3 heroes that neither of them can play during the match
  • Players are not forced to ban heroes, meaning there could potentially be 0 heroes banned in a single match if both players decide not to ban anybody after the timer has passed.

On a side note, yes, drafting is going to add another minute to the timer, but this tournament is focused on strategy, and draft picking would allow the need for more time to choose heroes accordingly. I’m not a fan of the extended PvP match lengths either, and am truly hoping this will be fixed soon as well, but I do not see a problem with taking a bit of time to strategically plan for your victory in a one-of-a-kind tournament where everybody will be the same star-level, grade, rank, and power.


On a side, side note, if this mode is successful and gains a lot of positive feedback, I hope it will not replace Free Play mode, but instead be its own PvP “Draft Mode”.

:slight_smile: