PvP and PvE is killing me, literally


#1

Why at the beginning of some pvp matches opponent is shooting while I’m still running into the match?
Why some matches are over before they even begin?
Why when the hero I control gets killed the switch to another hero takes soooooo looooong or switches to a different hero than I tapped 10times?
Why I get 10-15 matches where my AI doesn’t do anything except dying?
Why the huge power mismatch?
Why why why?


#2

Some of those symptoms sound like they related to connection issues. Ive been it matches where its slow to respond to commands (rolls, hero switching, etc). Or my guys seem to die a second after the match starts. Stuff like that is connection related. Generally I quit the game, make sure my connection is good, then reload and it helps clear it.

As for the power mismatch, this is something a few people have already commented on i think. HH has been trying to penalize min/max players so it could be that you are grouped with min/max players. I think some have experienced it even when they aren’t min/maxing so maybe they need to tweak the algorithm.


#3

Two things:

(1) CONNECTION ISSUES
Nobody likes these matches. The person with the bad connection is frustrated because they’re starting halfway through. The other player is frustrated because everything is janky and your targets keep teleporting.

Problem: It seems that, as it stands, as long as you technically have a connection via your aunt’s dialup, you can join the queue.

Solution: set a floor such that, to enter PvP matchmaking process, you have to have had a down speed of > X, up speed > Y, latency < Z, etc.

(2) MATCHMAKING RULES
People are fed up because they’re losing to a person doing XYZ. Other people are fed up because they’re matched with people 10k stronger than them.

Problem: The similarities they share are that (a) they don’t know why this is happening and (b) now they are mad at the game.

Solution: Stop shooting yourself in the foot and explain things! Players expect that they will be playing against teams of a similar power level. If they aren’t, they should at least know why! I am not saying you need to give us your secret sauce and say “it’s your second strongest hero times 3.7 divided by their lowest skill…” but at least mention which factors can, in general, cause players to be matched against stronger teams.
By way of example, if you needed to set a password for a service, the service would, almost certainly, tell you ahead of time, “hey, shithead, include two symbols and make it 12 characters or we won’t accept it”. The service wouldn’t just make you try endless combinations hoping one of them will hit the sweet spot. Such a frustrating experience would surely piss off users cough cough

Bonus reading:
One thing I’ll mention that I don’t see brought up in these situations is the ‘tolerance’ when matchmaking. In an ideal world, with perfectly balanced teams, a team with 23 612 power would match with a team with the same exact power.
Reality is that matchmaking is a quick (max 5s) process and so the algo has to make do with the people teams it has and go for the closest it can get at that instant. If the closest is within, +/- X %, it will pair you two up. If it is greater than that, it will match you with a bot. So, in this case, X is the percentage that the algo thinks is similar enough to not result in an unfair match. What is X? I don’t know. I don’t even know if it’s a percentage, an absolute, or a hybrid, but I suspect it is too high.
Without going too much farther down this tangent I’ll state what should be obvious: when two teams are around the 6000 power level, a 10% tolerance might seem fair. However, at the 60 000 power level, that 10% tolerance means the algo thinks a 6k power difference is still an even fight. Absolute tolerance fails for the opposite reason.
My suspicion is that the tolerance problem was okay when team power levels remained low, but now the cracks are showing at higher numbers.


#4

In spite of any differences in the community I hope we can all agree that HHGs philosophy of hiding matchmaking mechanics is just wrong.

This is the kind of amateur stuff I’d expect from 1st gen multiplayer dev’s in the 90s.

Its 2018 and long been resolved that concealing fundamental mechanics like that is not only an insult to the player but it disproportionately affects those it’s intended to protect, low information casual players. Veterans will quickly discern patterns in matchmaking and learn to abuse them, casuals will just continue to be fodder. If HHG would just be transparent about it, displaying matchmaking power and explaining why various penalties exist, then thered be some degree of fairness.

These are long settled design issues HHG, whenever you repeat the mantra of ‘well we can’t explain it or people would exploit it’, you’re only embarrassing yourselves.


#5

Preach.
Think of Google. Their search algorithm, if you can even call it an ‘algorithm’ at this point, is immeasurably valuable. Companies can live or die based on how well they place in searches so the stakes are very high to know exactly how it works. Now, recognizing this, Google could keep their cards very close to their chest and opt to be opaque about how their algo assesses each site/page–indeed they did that for a while there. However, they eventually realized that everyone was happier when they were forthcoming about what the factors were, generally, but kept specifics to themselves.


#6

I agree @Sogui But not just on the matchmaking mechanics, but even on the transparency for the regular monthly patchnotes/changes. The devs even replied that they keep it unclear on purpose. lol HHG has a huge communication issue on top of their technical problems.


#7

Spot on.

Spot on also.

PVP Participation is, I believe, lower than before. People are frustrated, including me.

I’ve definitely been playing less after the matchmaking algorithm went bonkers. So have many of the people I know (if they hadn’t dropped out already due to their previous unaddressed frustrations).

The model that HHG wants us to follow to get “even matchups” - ie, by having even stars, levels, skills and promotions - is simply not workable in real life because we get an uneven flow of frags, stars, bucks and gear.

And when real life hits because the heroes you can play are limited by differential stars, promotions etc, you get screwed with an uneven matchup.

Like, right now I have Anvil at 4 stars plat. I CANNOT play him with my A-team (and get A-team allocation of points) BECAUSE matchmaking is gonna screw me over. And if I play him with my B or C-teams of course they gonna get murdered.

Where is the incentive to play then??


#8

This is a bit tangential to the direction the topic is going, but I just want to quick say thank you for mentioning this. There are way too many times that people post one screenshot of a bad matchup as if it were the be-all-end-all proof of a horrible algorithm. Obviously I’m preaching to the choir here since you’re the one that mentioned it, but WOW do I see a lot of unfounded complaints based on a pitiful amount of evidence.


#9

Also @Muninn I know you say you guys read this stuff but when there is never a response it feeds the idea that devs think this is a non-issue / disagree / are indifferent.

Say something


#10

Just responding to say, we cannot guarrantee responses to threads.

We want to thank everyone for sharing your feedback, and we make an effort to read all of these threads.

However, even if we agree with the feedback being raised it will almost certainly take more than a couple hours to enact any changes.

If we have news to share we plan to share it as soon as we can. I cannot provide any ETAs or confirmations of any kind at this time.


#11

Thanks, a way to know that the community is being heard is what I think we want. In some cases that’s a “yes”/“no” here, or a “we’ll lookbinto this” there, but in cases where a topic is being brought up repeatedly, I think a more fleshed out response is warranted. I’d like to think the forum is here not just because it engages users and can help grow the user base but also because it gives developers a great deal of insight into what users are thinking. There is value in dialog, so please try to prioritize and embrace this sort of user engagement as fully as you (HH) can.

PS, despite the flaws, I think it’s immediately apparent to users that a game as good as this is made with lots of hardwork, so a big thanks for that :slight_smile:


#12

Thanks guys for all the responses!

Today I’ve seen this:


Is it some sort of glitch?


#13

i’ve seen that a lot. Don’t know exactly why but that only happen if you have castellan on your team (maybe allied heroes walk in-out through his shield wall?)


#14

Never seen that but that should be a separate thread or a support ticket (tbh that one seems ripe for a ticket)


#15

I had the same issue months ago. It finally went away