Let's talk about the bounty changes - Some level-headed feedback

Edited Friday to add point 2d
Edited Saturday to add points 2e and 4c

EDIT
Just wanted to thank the devs for reverting the brogan bounties and adding the skill charge at the beginning. While I don’t agree with leaving the run-time as-is, I understand for solidarity’s sake why the decision was made. I also think that in combination of charged skills at match-start, changing to two 30-second zones is a really effective solution since the real problem is reducing zone time, thus reducing effective damage time. See section 4b below.
END OF EDIT

Whew boy HHG, you really did it this time. Lots of gut reactions from the players; obviously this is a highly controversial change. I want to dive into the pros and cons of it with some well-thought-out feedback rather than simply bashing my head against the keyboard like many seem to have chosen to do.

This is a LOT of text, so I apologize in advance, but I want to be thorough and give a comprehensive, non-kneejerk summary of everything, good, bad, or otherwise.

1. Positive Changes

1a. Less Weekend Time Needed

Ok, let’s get this out of the way first and start off on a high note. The primary positive from this is that the bounty event is now MUCH less draining from a time perspective. Rather than babysitting your phone all weekend, we’re able to blow through our lives much quicker, this is good thing that I think everyone will agree on.

1b. Trash Enemy Cleanup Reduced

This is pretty minimal, but the amount of ‘trash’ enemies that need offing has been cut in half. Before, you clear the first two zones of everyone and then focus on the bounty for the third zone. Now, there’s only one zone in which you must clear the rest of the enemies. [unenthusiastic] Whoop-dee-doo [/unenthusiastic].

2. Negative Changes

2a. Skill Loading Time

This should be painfully obvious. HEROES HAVE SKILLS. And these skills take time to charge. 45 seconds is not at all enough time to fully utilize what makes a hero unique. Because of this, every hero feels lifeless and uninteresting. Using Dogface for example is no longer a fun way to take advantage of the synergy between his two active skills. Nope, just lifelessly aim for the head and pray you can get his two skills off even once.

2b. Transition Time

This is a HUGE problem. Let me lay it out based on raw numbers taken from a shanty town bounty screen recording (NOT estimates). We have 45 seconds available to us. It takes right around 5 seconds before the bounty is in position. At 25 seconds, the bounty leaves zone 1, arriving in its zone 2 position at 20 seconds. The remainder of the match is spent hopelessly mashing ‘shoot’ until 3 seconds are left, at which point the bounty leaves.

5+5+3=13 seconds have now vanished from the mission, an alarming 30% of the mission is spent watching the screen and just WAITING. Now don’t forget that you had to clear the trash mobs from the first zone. We’ll be reasonable and call this 5 or so (unless, god forbid, you’re running it on auto). We have now lost 40% OF THE MISSION TO USELESS NOTHINGNESS. I can’t even express how awful this is from a playing standpoint and I find it flabbergastingly difficult to believe that a single one of you play-tested this even once.

2c. “Getting Your Bearings”

This one is less tangible, but it’s a feeling that every player will be familiar with, perhaps without even realizing it. Every transition that happens, there’s a span of time where you’re “getting your bearings” on the current situation. You’re getting a handle on where your pilot hero is, and where the enemies are, and if they’re moving etc. There’s a lot that goes into this short period of time.

The problem with the changes is that our zone time is reduced from 30 seconds down to 22 (It’s really closer to 16 though because of the time taken for the transitions themselves). What this means is that this “getting your bearings” time now represents a MUCH higher percentage of the match, which makes the whole thing feel rushed, panicked, and abrupt (And not in a good way, as is sometimes done). It’s disorienting at best and headache-inducing at worst.

2d. Edited To Add: Stumble/Stun Severity (Thanks @WalleWu!)

WalleWu brought up a great point in the comments. With such a painfully short time available (only 16 seconds per zone!), the severity of getting stunned or even stumbled has been increased tremendously. A knockback can easily cause 3-5 seconds of precious time to vanish if hit during a reload. Keep in mind that’s nearly 1/3 of an entire zone’s worth of time!

2e. Edited To Add: Superhero Damage Gone (Thanks @Phil50579874!)

As Phil mentioned in a reply, the ENTIRE point that we all love bounty is the rush of that dopamine-triggering damage feedback. Seeing those huge chunks of hp fall off is mouth-watering. This is an important point so I’m going to emphasize it: Nobody plays bounty seriously for the rewards - It’s about feeling like a superhero.

I think this whole thing is indicative of the fact that the devs don’t really get why players love bounty. It’s a pissing contest! We all just want to sling our numbers around VIP chat and talk smack to everyone else about our ridiculous multi-billion damage scores. THAT’S IT. That’s why we play bounty. We want to be able to prove that our ludicrously high damage output is higher than the next guy’s ludicrously high damage output.

Therefore, the whole value of bounty is the built-in perspective in what kinds of damage numbers are high. This has been built up in players’ minds for months and months and gets reinforced again every other weekend. By overhauling the system (in a reduced way), you shatter that. You completely ruin the invincible feeling that makes it so awesome. No existing player will ever be able to enjoy bounty again if the system stays how it is. There will always be that lingering feeling of “ok that was decent damage, but it’s still nothing like what I did before the changes.”

3. Other Notes

3a. Brogan-Requirement

This isn’t related to the aforementioned changes, but I feel it’s worth bringing up. Since the actual numbers aren’t published on how many players have each hero, I can’t give an exact figure here, but I think it’s safe to say that (outside of the top few alliances), fewer than 1/1000 players currently have Brogan. So what do we do about all the Brogan-required bounties??

If your alliance is one of the hundreds that doesn’t have a single Brogan, you’re screwed. And before you say “Ok well just don’t do those ones”, just wait until every single alliance that’s active in bounty has a queue filled with 25 Brogan-only bounties that they can’t clear out. So now you have hours worth of bounty in which not a SINGLE bounty can be fought. Genius :roll_eyes:.

3b. No Announcement

AARRGH this one is SO frustrating. You guys clearly have the means to announce things. DO IT. You now have an entire community of people thinking that there is a bug in the biggest event in the game. MAKE. ANNOUNCEMENTS. That way you can get feedback ahead of time, forewarn the playerbase about changes ahead of time, allow everyone to prepare for the changes, allow for a smooth transition to a new way of doing things… The benefits are endless and the negatives are nonexistent. It’s absolutely ridiculous that the community has to rely on one little post on DISCORD of all places to know that this was intentional in the first place. GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER.

3c. This Explains Past Bugs

This is just my own observation, but we now have clarification about what exactly happened during the last two bounty bugs. The timing bug that happened several bounties ago can be explained by a premature release of this abortion of an update making it into the production code.

There was also the bug the first time ‘bonus’ bounties were available in which they would automatically lose half their starting hp at the end of the match on top of what was dealt by the player. While this was fun in the moment, it was obviously a bug. Coincidentally, we now have bounties with half the health they originally did. Donning your tin-foil hat will reveal that this is another accidental code release onto the production server.

4. Final Thoughts

4a. Summary

Wow, thanks for making it this far!! I applaud not only your attention span but also the amount of boredom I have at work right now.

HHG, this update SUCKS. (There that’s my one knee-jerk reaction). But seriously. The players hated the accidental “preview” of this a month or two ago, and we all hate it now. PLEASE revert this back, and don’t wait until the next bounty. Accept that you made a mistake and revert it now. The players will thank you for it and you’ll look great in the eyes of the community despite not deserving it. Let me repeat that louder for the people in the back:

DON’T WAIT UNTIL AFTER BOUNTY - REVERT IT NOW

4b. My Suggested Solution

Here’s the best solution I can think of. I think it addresses every positive and every negative pretty well. Make the bounty last one minute instead of 45 seconds, but keep the two zones. This reverts the zone time to 30 seconds, which felt fair; and it also allows for a healthy recharge rate of skills. It also serves the purpose of lowering the overall time expenditure for the event as a whole.

4c. My -Revised- Suggested Solution

I’m adding this after editing the post to add point 2e. The magistrates bounty was going to be the culmination of power in bounty. Everyone was flexing their heroes in chat and getting pumped up about the insane highscores we were going to get.

Let us have it the old way, if only for the next bounty. PLEASE, let us all get the magistrates bounty that we were craving and revert back to the old system; even if you’re set on changing it afterward. Just give us this last one to go out with a bang and then we can all try to mentally adjust what “high” scores look like. Phil’s point (2e) made me realize that my suggested solution may not be correct, because what we all really want is to maintain what’s been engrained into our minds for so many months of what scores should look like.

THANKS FOR READING

51 Likes

I would like to see some of the time reduction remaining but in general agree.

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Agreed, hence my last point about finding a middle ground at 1 minute divided into two 30 second zones.

You just said what I thought, thanks for the first good post on the forum since the start of the bounty

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I created an account Papa just to respond. As much as I’ve avoided posting on the forum.
I cannot express how grateful alot of people are for you laying everything out with this post.

But I have to fully disagree with keeping a reduced time.
The overall difference between burning all your heros for a 45 second match and a 1:30 match has a very minimal impact on real life.

Not counting revives, if you run one after another you can burn all hero lives within around 30-40 minutes. Which yes, is alot shorter now with reduced bounties. Then you have a 3 hour window before all lives are restored. That is already a very minimal impact on real life time.
Yes they reduced bounty life by half, but with half time to attack bounty, I am doing MUCH less than half damage. So even then, the changes made/damage reduced is not proportional.

This bounty in my opinion is a failure. It needs to be reverted back to original status and then left alone. There is no benefit or reasoning behind the change. I have never seen a single person complain and call for any of the changes they have made today. I have looked forward to this bounty for a long time and spent quite a bit of money getting my magistrates 10* and plat for this event…

I really applaud the well thought out and well written message! I just really hope the right people see it!

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That is one hell of a problem. If your AI fights bad, you have to clean them up all by yourself and that takes time. Even more if they just duck behind cover and refuse to stand uo again so you have to break the cover first.

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@Papa_Marsh Well said. I appreciate you taking your time to make an elaborate post.

Do you think they did this to reduce the point gap between the newer player base and the old veterans?

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One point you missed (and them obviously too) is stun and stumble. If you get your damage dealer stuned your damage is lost. Also a stumble while reloading with for example Dogface is even more of an issue than before He has a 3.5 second reload. If you stumble while you reload, you lose about 5 seconds (stumble+new reload) That is over 15% of the leftover time you have to do damage to the bounty.

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I am really pissed off… I have always disliked Bounty. I am a PvP guy.

But the one thing I enjoyed about Bounty was using my Hero’s abilities and using them together in a team play. Now I can’t even switch between hero’s to use their abilities. The match is over before it begins.

Many of us enjoyed reaching high Bounty scores to compete with each other; now that is gone and Bounty is even more worthless with 13 seconds wasted watching Hero’s run.

@DEVS, do truly dislike your players and members that much that you don’t communicate, worn, or care about what we want? It truly feels like it these days. You do what you want and care nothing for the players who actually dedicate countless hours and thousands of dollars into this game. No DEV ever replies on Forums, your communication is never universal or posted in just one place. A player has to check Discord, FaceBook, in-game chat, and more just to find out answers or information about the game. What in the world is going on!!! Is HHG falling apart? No need to reply, because I know you just read the forums and not reply to actually players.

You are truly ruining this game with knee jerk changes without communication or adequate feedback from Players.

And in regards to Brogan. He is extremely under powered for what a 7* Hero should be. Nobody is going to use him on their PvP team; just like nobody uses Artemis. I am angry because I am tired of seeing a game I love to play get worse and worse!

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Nice original post. If they want to reduce time in bounties fix the location instead of changing zones to fight.

I found nothing overall wrong with old bounties like most it what I look forward to most and build my heros up ready for. This is appauling atleast ask us for our input like you did for draft pvp etc but this No just horrid

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Great point! Added that to the list; thank you!

i dont think 1min will work.
heroes like hivemind takes quite sometime to get his summons out.
another example would be maven. u usually get to 2nd phase before u can use her skills,
basically heroes with long charging skills will be nerfed badly if they need to go to 2nd stage before using their damaging skills. Just saying the third stage is usually the stage most damage is dealt and just giving instant charge of skills at the start won’t help.
They should just revert it.

if a change must be made, it shouldn’t affect the gameplay involved. HP, reduced points for reward tiers(should not focus on top tier players as probably majority of alliances are casual and semi casual)

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@Devs - I think this speaks for itself on how the community feels about this. This was less than 50 minutes after being posted.

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Very well said. Thank you for doing this.

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@Papa_Marsh liked the comment.

Overall i agree your points. I’d accept some changes into any type of game mode. Actually nobody is against changes that makes game better but the problem is, as some players pointed out; DEVS do not consult any players on what to do and change the game drastically without proper testing.

I love the game, to speak of myself out. But getting disheartened more and more by incompetent management.

Happy hunting.

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Thanks for this long epos :wink: which is totally spot on! I dislike the change in Bounty just like anyone, please revert to the ‘old’ setup asap. I haven’t spoken to anyone that actually likes this change. This change has too much negative effect on Bounty event to warrant it too stay. Vote REVERT NOW!

also the strength balance is off, because of the shorter time. The bounty is so short my weakest bronze heroes even survived against highest platinum. That is just wrong.

If you want people to play less, make it a 2 day event or significantly increase heroes revive times. ps… worst bounty weekend experience so far

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Let’s all just stop saying the same stuff, we have a great post here.

Be constructive to add to this topic, add pros and cons and what you think should be changed.

Right now I’m just annoyed that I worked on a lot of hero’s that are useless now, pvp and bounty wise, I just hope we can figure out a way to get those up to speed.

Buffing every hero is probably not the solution, I know pvp is hard to solve, but for bounties with this new change I think a almost full skill set will help us to get trough this.

I do like the less time needed, I’ve never been so low so quick on hero’s, but right now I have no time to synergy my team, and that is the thing I was working on really hard, so I hope we can change this

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Yea I’m done giving thousands of dollars if this crap continues… you guys had something good going now you’re jacking it all up

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By far the biggest disappointment of this change is the lack of communication.

What makes me sad is that heroes that have historically been useless in PVP but have been excellent in bounty are now essentially useless. Scum, Hivemind and halloway were all excellent bounty heroes which meant they were worth spending time on and leveling up for people serious about bounty. Now the best bounty heroes are all just heroes with good auto attack. Damage over time heroes or heroes with summons are effectively useless again. Isn’t the opposite of what was intended?

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The Devs really screwed this game up. I was considering leaving and now I am going. The new PVP sucks, the drop rate sucks, having to always get the new hero to be competitive sucks, and now the icing on the cake. The devs killed the one piece of the game which was actually awesome. How could they screw up Bounty this badly? It’s like they are trying to get us to leave the game. Between my son and I we spent $50 yesterday to get ready for the Bounty. That may not be much money for some, but that is the most money I have ever spent on any game. Now I want our money back. This is just plain hot gorbage. The Debs just pulled the Dumbest move I have ever seen in any game ever.

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