Is it me... or is the game becoming more lenient on Min/maxers?

Sorry if my post wasn’t very clear but this isn’t about the amount of min/maxers, it’s about how they’re being punished. Recently I’ve seen that min/maxers are being penalized less heavily and it concerns me as it seems the devs are regressing on improving the game.

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My experience and probably a lot others would feel that min/makers are NOT Penalised.

This two examples illustrates that min/maxers are NOT penalised and in fact is given the advantage of team power.

This illustration shows somehow, that the matching algorithm is basically frak. Matching me with a much high power team. Not the first time.

In my limited and layman analysis of the algorithm and observation. The system basically feels once one have a plat team they should be match up with a higher min/maxed due to the fact that the Min/maxed runs other lower class or stars of hero. Which results in the min/maxer most times gets away with a team of higher power with absolutely NO penalty !

I feel we should define MinMax better so we can have a better discussion.

For me, MinMax means these:

(A) Deliberately not levelling Hero Levels and manipulating Grade Promotions in order to play in a lower power bracket

(B) Deliberately pairing wide differences in Metal Grades (Plat, Gold, Silver, Bronze) to lower the average power of the team, in order to play in a lower power bracket

© Deliberately not levelling up skills so that the power level of their pvp heroes is lower so that they can again play in a lower power bracket.

Examples of (A):

Look at [Nomad] Rebelpath. He is Team Level 70+ and his heroes are all at Level 58. That’s the only reason how he can play at 33K power. He is min-maxing because if he levels up his heroes to his Team Level of 70+ he would definitely not be eligible to play at a power bracket of 33k. WIth that lineup it would be more like 40-42k where his team would be FAR LESS EFFECTIVE.

If you see Sogui’s account it’s the same thing. Team level 74 but he only has what… 5 Hero level 74 heroes? Hardly any above 70. If you made him promote all his pvp heroes to his team level… he would not be able to play at 35K. It would be 45K and above.

Again, full disclosure, I do this version of minmaxing also AND I WANT THIS FIXED because it is fundamentally unfair and a ridiculous way to get easy wins against crappy low level opponents.

Examples of (B):

Look at Neva759. He is using technique (A) plus technique (B) in order to play at a lower power bracket. TO be fair so is Kraterios. So perhaps there was no injustice done.

Also, XELBR’s matches against CoolHand. Same thing - jumping across Plat to SIlver. Simple reason - Silver hero depresses the team power level so he can play at a lower power bracket.

Examples of ©:

This was the old version of minmaxing with the 1-1-21 Mandrakes. This problem is more or less solved as I seldom see significantly underskilled heroes in pvp now. However I would argue that the underskill penalty applied for players who still continue to do this version of minmaxing, IS NOT ENOUGH. Penalty should be higher.

/Sing

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I agree that min maxing should be fixed and penalized.

It is affecting game’s health and new players. PVP in July and august was a complete mess because of heroes that are worth minmaxing, especially panzer and ifrit.

I doubt if devs can fix their opening of pandora’s box by role-warfare, which could make pvp more lenghty and boring.

Sing as I pointed out in the other thread stars and levels do the same thing. Yes you can use levels to keep your power lower, but you can accomplish the same strategy just by not adding stars to your PVP heroes - and you definitely can’t “force” people to add stars so what does your change accomplish exactly? Someone could still run a team identical to mine at level 75 with 35k power.

Regarding B: Metal grades matter less than stars for total power. So once again I feel like you’re missing the point. I’m sure dudes like Ghostly818 would love to see some metal-based matchmaking so he can run his 1* Platinum Cast for power dropping.

Regarding C: You’re right its not an issue anymore. People are penalized if they underskill. It can be hard to tell if there’s any leeway on this but if there is HHG should just remove it and matchmake based on a hero’s max skill level.

I also agree that we need to get a consensus on these terms since there are so many pointless arguments here about what term means what - but it all boils down to people having an incentive to lower their team’s power.

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I repeat my solution of fixing 90% of the min/max issues and can’t see any downside by implementing this, still a bit surprised that action is not yet taken by HH:

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Thanks for the suggestions! Please note that, as we’ve said before, even simple solutions are way more complex than they seem. Thanks for giving us the time, and remaining patient, while we do what we do :slight_smile:

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@Nailfox

9* 75 Platinum Panzer
7* 70 Gold Heimlock
7* 70 Gold Caine
7* 70 Gold Nightingale
7* 70 Gold Mandrake

9* Plats can go over 14,000 power, 7* Golds can be under 7k power. Your proposal is HORRIBLE because its so easy to abuse. You say you “dont see a downside” but you’re literally imposing a bunch of schizophrenic requirements on players, someone new gets a 7* hero? Screw them, they can’t PVP with that hero for weeks!

Not everyone has a 600 day old account dude, you can’t seem to grasp that 99.99% of the playerbase doesn’t have the fragments or gear to keep their entire PVP roster in lockstep. I’m not talking about myself either, but when I was newer it would have been nuts to say "Oh hey looks like you’ve got enough PVP gems to get Mandrake to 8*, too bad your Heimlock has been stuck at 5* for a while, guess you either have to stop progressing or break up your favorite PVP team! “Don’t worry, Nailfox said that this system has no downside!”

lol, we know you would be against this Sogui as a min/maxer. I said it will fix it 90% not 100%.

This will greatly limit what you and other min/maxers are doing now, and there need to be some kind of flexibility so people can use a wide set of their heroes, that’s why I propose 2 star difference and 1 color difference. And Skills not in the matchmaking calculation, hmmmm sounds good.

I will not go in another debate with you as you try to get another topic closed by the moderators, your input on this subject is of no value to anyone.

PS: My account is 600 days old being installed as a Tapjoy offer while I was playing kill shot virus, I started to play 1 week after the world wide launch 222 days ago. You’ll find the account I created then as Nailfoxxx not knowing I had one from before (old account with 6 mails of compensations from HH during that year)

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Daily reminder: keep it classy. Personal attacks and bickering will result in bad times.

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What the… I can’t even…

I think that even if we define what min-maxing is, people can just feign ignorance (whether true or not) when they’re punished and complain themselves. There has been some complaints from people being paired with ridiculous match-ups who were unaware that they were running a min-maxed team.

This has actually been the most consistent and viable solution presented. Of course this will inconvenience others as they’re forced to level their heroes, but hey, that’s the point. And the beauty of it is that whether or not people are aware of min-maxing, this neatly lays out the rules of which heroes they can use, and (can probably) omit the need to “punish” min-maxers with ridiculous match-ups because they’re going to be matched-up properly to begin with.

But idk, that’s just my 2 cents. Meanwhile, I’ll continue to run my 10* Plat Dog with a bunch of silvers and bronzes because I need those gems. Hahaha. As the old adage goes: “If you can’t beat them, join them.” :rofl:

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“Our robots are excellent at counting. We have the best robots. Our robots are so good at counting, other games might try to steal our counting robots. But we won’t let them. You know why? Cause we’re the greatest game in the world.”

I think we need to start by making PVP matches give xp. That would make it impossible for players to keep their level lower on purpose to min/max. I see no drawbacks at all to doing this. It might take awhile, but everyone would eventually get those low leveled heroes leveled up if they wanted to PVP.

Then I think we need to look at hero skills. Platinum and gold skills should be significantly better than bronze and silver. That would make people want to actually level up in rank rather than keep their Panzer at silver when she is 10*.

These two changes alone would go a long way towards fixing PVP. Obviously the second would take a ton of work to balance properly. In the meantime the devs could just make skills not add power to a hero. That way getting 10* silver isn’t that much higher in power than 10* platinum, but you have a couple extra skills that are at least semi-useful in most cases.

While I am not sure these changes would completely fix the min/max problem, they would at least be a band-aid fix until something more permanent comes along. At any rate they would be better than the nothing the devs are doing now about min/maxing.

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Still going on, still infuriating

Edit: These pieces of shit never stop, and the game is supporting them.

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Sorry for cursing, I’m just so pissed off. It’s relentless, 9/10 matches are min/max with the same power as me.

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It is and will CONTINUE to be BROKEN till the devs fix it. Acknowledging the issue is one matter. Addressing and fixing is another matter altogether…

Someone please help cause I DONT UNDERSTAND.

When conducting experiments, I used a min/max of a 8* plat with a bunch of 5* silvers and get a huge difference (29k vs 22k). But whenever I used a team that’s as balanced as possible, I run into a min/maxers that’s my power. There’s now consistency here, nothing governing matchmaking. Matchmaking is broken, it needs to be fixed.

And I’m sorry I keep on posting on this thread, its just that I don’t understand and maybe someone here could help.

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It seems the game penalizes star power much more than bar rank. There’s also some other things it likes to nail you for.

I did a ton of testing and when I would run only 3 heroes, all 8-10* and platinum and leave 2 spots open I would get penalized HARD. I am talking anywhere from 8-18k difference in my opponent’s favor.

In the case above your teams are actually really close. I am guessing his hidden PVP player rating is pretty low because he is using a pretty crappy 7* plat hero with them. I mean you still won.

What is this min/maxing exploit? I was accused of it once. The only experience I could think it referred to was when I would get paired with a player who had bronze and green 10* heroes (one being prophet). Sure the 5* heroes I had at that time got blasted. I was disappointed that was I always losing to that squad but then my HH IQ increased and I got Panzer to 6* then obliterated Prophet.

This thread has been dead for 4 months, please leave it that way :stuck_out_tongue: