Is it me... or is the game becoming more lenient on Min/maxers?


#1

I’m not sure if its just me but the game seems to be regressing on the whole min/maxing and unbalanced teams issue. More and more I’m seeing the margin between min/max teams and balanced team decrease and it can get pretty infuriating.

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Min/maxers used to be penalized pretty heavily, usually having a 10%-25% difference against them, but recently it’s seems to dull down to between 10% to none at all. People who use less than 5 heroes usually had a 25%-45% difference between balanced teams.

For me however, its not about min/maxing issue that concerns me, it’s a legitimate strategy no matter how infuriating it is. However, when has me worried is that HHG is regressing in their progress to improve this game to the community’s liking.

Edit:
After spending some more time PvPing, I have concluded that matchmaking it just messed up.

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Matches just seem so random, at this point I’m getting more unfair matches from a balanced team than a min/max team. The problem lies within the flaws of the matchmaking system, and it does not stop at just min/maxers.

Feel free to discuss and post your own experiences here and how I’m just a “nub scrub” who needs to “git gucci”.


#2

The more you “spread the word” about the min/maxing exploit the more players are gonna use the exploit. So yeah thanks to everyone for spreading the word and the awareness in 4 discussion threads weekly.


#3

Obviously if all you do is lose to min/maxers or teams of healers/drake/panzer i.e.
You are most likely going to try that aswell just to get through the 5 divs of pvp events.


#4


#5

Word is already out


#6

The Min/max abuse has gone from bad to WORST, 7 out of 10 matches are min/max …


#7

This isn’t meant to spread min/maxing, I’m sure at this point everyone knows what it is and has had an encounter with it, or even participate in it themselves. What I’m trying to discuss here is if min/maxing is becoming more viable and I was hoping to see if I could get some answers here.


#8

Everyone min/maxes nowadays. 8/10 games will probably be against a min/maxer. This issue, along with all the issues plaguing PvP is the cancer that’s probably going to bring this game down. I made several replies to similar threads like this about a month and a half ago (and did some reading of other posts as well), and am yet to see a dev reply and offer some assurance that this is being dealt with.

The devs probably don’t care about it, seeing as the paying players are the ones who benefit from it the most. Haha. This has been a problem since day 1 and nothing has been done about it, despite many members of the community offering viable solutions. It just baffles me that they can release all these stuff like new skins and heroes, and rework PvP with the Role Warfare thingy but they just can’t address this.

Tl;dr: The devs don’t care, nor should you. Just min/max as well. That’s what I did (and am doing).


#9

Sorry if my post wasn’t very clear but this isn’t about the amount of min/maxers, it’s about how they’re being punished. Recently I’ve seen that min/maxers are being penalized less heavily and it concerns me as it seems the devs are regressing on improving the game.


#10

My experience and probably a lot others would feel that min/makers are NOT Penalised.

This two examples illustrates that min/maxers are NOT penalised and in fact is given the advantage of team power.

This illustration shows somehow, that the matching algorithm is basically frak. Matching me with a much high power team. Not the first time.

In my limited and layman analysis of the algorithm and observation. The system basically feels once one have a plat team they should be match up with a higher min/maxed due to the fact that the Min/maxed runs other lower class or stars of hero. Which results in the min/maxer most times gets away with a team of higher power with absolutely NO penalty !


#11

I feel we should define MinMax better so we can have a better discussion.

For me, MinMax means these:

(A) Deliberately not levelling Hero Levels and manipulating Grade Promotions in order to play in a lower power bracket

(B) Deliberately pairing wide differences in Metal Grades (Plat, Gold, Silver, Bronze) to lower the average power of the team, in order to play in a lower power bracket

© Deliberately not levelling up skills so that the power level of their pvp heroes is lower so that they can again play in a lower power bracket.

Examples of (A):

Look at [Nomad] Rebelpath. He is Team Level 70+ and his heroes are all at Level 58. That’s the only reason how he can play at 33K power. He is min-maxing because if he levels up his heroes to his Team Level of 70+ he would definitely not be eligible to play at a power bracket of 33k. WIth that lineup it would be more like 40-42k where his team would be FAR LESS EFFECTIVE.

If you see Sogui’s account it’s the same thing. Team level 74 but he only has what… 5 Hero level 74 heroes? Hardly any above 70. If you made him promote all his pvp heroes to his team level… he would not be able to play at 35K. It would be 45K and above.

Again, full disclosure, I do this version of minmaxing also AND I WANT THIS FIXED because it is fundamentally unfair and a ridiculous way to get easy wins against crappy low level opponents.

Examples of (B):

Look at Neva759. He is using technique (A) plus technique (B) in order to play at a lower power bracket. TO be fair so is Kraterios. So perhaps there was no injustice done.

Also, XELBR’s matches against CoolHand. Same thing - jumping across Plat to SIlver. Simple reason - Silver hero depresses the team power level so he can play at a lower power bracket.

Examples of ©:

This was the old version of minmaxing with the 1-1-21 Mandrakes. This problem is more or less solved as I seldom see significantly underskilled heroes in pvp now. However I would argue that the underskill penalty applied for players who still continue to do this version of minmaxing, IS NOT ENOUGH. Penalty should be higher.

/Sing


#12

I agree that min maxing should be fixed and penalized.

It is affecting game’s health and new players. PVP in July and august was a complete mess because of heroes that are worth minmaxing, especially panzer and ifrit.

I doubt if devs can fix their opening of pandora’s box by role-warfare, which could make pvp more lenghty and boring.


#13

Sing as I pointed out in the other thread stars and levels do the same thing. Yes you can use levels to keep your power lower, but you can accomplish the same strategy just by not adding stars to your PVP heroes - and you definitely can’t “force” people to add stars so what does your change accomplish exactly? Someone could still run a team identical to mine at level 75 with 35k power.

Regarding B: Metal grades matter less than stars for total power. So once again I feel like you’re missing the point. I’m sure dudes like Ghostly818 would love to see some metal-based matchmaking so he can run his 1* Platinum Cast for power dropping.

Regarding C: You’re right its not an issue anymore. People are penalized if they underskill. It can be hard to tell if there’s any leeway on this but if there is HHG should just remove it and matchmake based on a hero’s max skill level.

I also agree that we need to get a consensus on these terms since there are so many pointless arguments here about what term means what - but it all boils down to people having an incentive to lower their team’s power.


#14

I repeat my solution of fixing 90% of the min/max issues and can’t see any downside by implementing this, still a bit surprised that action is not yet taken by HH:


#15

Thanks for the suggestions! Please note that, as we’ve said before, even simple solutions are way more complex than they seem. Thanks for giving us the time, and remaining patient, while we do what we do :slight_smile:


#16

@Nailfox

9* 75 Platinum Panzer
7* 70 Gold Heimlock
7* 70 Gold Caine
7* 70 Gold Nightingale
7* 70 Gold Mandrake

9* Plats can go over 14,000 power, 7* Golds can be under 7k power. Your proposal is HORRIBLE because its so easy to abuse. You say you “dont see a downside” but you’re literally imposing a bunch of schizophrenic requirements on players, someone new gets a 7* hero? Screw them, they can’t PVP with that hero for weeks!

Not everyone has a 600 day old account dude, you can’t seem to grasp that 99.99% of the playerbase doesn’t have the fragments or gear to keep their entire PVP roster in lockstep. I’m not talking about myself either, but when I was newer it would have been nuts to say "Oh hey looks like you’ve got enough PVP gems to get Mandrake to 8*, too bad your Heimlock has been stuck at 5* for a while, guess you either have to stop progressing or break up your favorite PVP team! “Don’t worry, Nailfox said that this system has no downside!”


#17

lol, we know you would be against this Sogui as a min/maxer. I said it will fix it 90% not 100%.

This will greatly limit what you and other min/maxers are doing now, and there need to be some kind of flexibility so people can use a wide set of their heroes, that’s why I propose 2 star difference and 1 color difference. And Skills not in the matchmaking calculation, hmmmm sounds good.

I will not go in another debate with you as you try to get another topic closed by the moderators, your input on this subject is of no value to anyone.

PS: My account is 600 days old being installed as a Tapjoy offer while I was playing kill shot virus, I started to play 1 week after the world wide launch 222 days ago. You’ll find the account I created then as Nailfoxxx not knowing I had one from before (old account with 6 mails of compensations from HH during that year)


#18

Daily reminder: keep it classy. Personal attacks and bickering will result in bad times.


#20

What the… I can’t even…


#21

I think that even if we define what min-maxing is, people can just feign ignorance (whether true or not) when they’re punished and complain themselves. There has been some complaints from people being paired with ridiculous match-ups who were unaware that they were running a min-maxed team.

This has actually been the most consistent and viable solution presented. Of course this will inconvenience others as they’re forced to level their heroes, but hey, that’s the point. And the beauty of it is that whether or not people are aware of min-maxing, this neatly lays out the rules of which heroes they can use, and (can probably) omit the need to “punish” min-maxers with ridiculous match-ups because they’re going to be matched-up properly to begin with.

But idk, that’s just my 2 cents. Meanwhile, I’ll continue to run my 10* Plat Dog with a bunch of silvers and bronzes because I need those gems. Hahaha. As the old adage goes: “If you can’t beat them, join them.” :rofl: