Agreed. If im piloting dogface and they have flatline, shes my target and i often get her in one mag unless they have heim and drake. Then i might do it one mag. If not, shes critical.
I would definitely put Dogface in God Tier… No way he’s out of it. Yes he has some counters but he could be viable with any team and at plat level 9-10 stars if protected well and piloted smart he could devastate the field. Panzer can be a pain against him but in this case i normally solve this by rolling a lot just to blunt panzers initial onslaught (if targeted him first). Min… Needs time to be considered a threat against him. Smart player takes her out fast. Odachi the same. If i see him in opponent team, i forget any other and fight against him with all the team (using switching) Only Mauler is a real threat if protected well enough against him, But he is specifically a Dog counter. We cannot generalize the situation. Dogface’ skills simply are irresistable and inflicts enormous damage even against weak element.
These comments are made up for champion ladder, at lower levels Dogface is even more dangerous as at lower levels counters are less known, worse piloted. Also HP’s are way lower contributes better odds in favour of Dogface.
Also i’d put Oracle and Butter in competitive tier while demote Sentry, Artemis, Cinder and Vanguard to viable tier. Particularly, Sentry does way better in brawls (3vs3’s) imo.
Note: For manual player, panzer might fare a bit better sometimes (good panzer players are rare but in my experience, too hard to beat) but for semi auto and auto players, panzer is not that even good while dog does a good job. That should count too, no?
Butter isn’t in competitive tier for the same reason as Baron, Anvil, and many other energy heroes. Panzer has no problem wiping him in under 10 seconds.
Dogface managed decently in the brawl because his best counters are all best as plats (Min, Mauler, Ifrit), even then he was outclassed by Panzer - all you had to do was pressure him and time your Breach/Cover Smash/Clean Sweep for his reloads, each interrupted reload was equivalent for a ~3 second stun and the other team would quickly fall behind if Dogface wasn’t helping pressure our healers. Then swap to Gale and mark him and its over 99% of the time with Drake/Panzer/Heim/etc. unloading on him with the Gale buff while he’s still trying to finish his 1st Reload. Dogface simply doesn’t have a real answer to roll spam the way that Panzer and Mauler do either.
My reaction when I see a plat Mauler or plat Panzer is simply on a whole different level than when I see another big Dogface to farm.
I moved Flatline down a bit but keep in mind that this list is with Flatline on an ideal team, not just the usual junk you might see where she’s just tossed in as a crutch for a bad lineup. I’ve found flatline at her best with Mauler because Mauler can immediately shut down any Mech who tries to focus her.
Cinder is absolutely competitive and I’ve been contemplating pushing her up more. Her plat actually works EXACTLY as described now, figure out what that means and you’ll understand why she’s so strong. Vanguard plat is capable of tossing out a massive shield every ~8 seconds, with the right healing composition he’s downright insane. Sentry and Artemis I’ve already explained.
He’s already the #3 DPS on the list. I just don’t know what more credit I could realistically give him. Dogface has sufficient counters that I don’t see him as a DPS “God”, but he’s still in the Top 3.
I agree with a lot of points you’re making.
But in the back of my head I keep thinking about the way you upgrade hero’s.
You did an amazing job to study the game mechanics and to keep the heros you have at the point they rock amazingly.
The problem I have is that most of us upgrade hero’s in lvl and metal type beyond you.
Don’t see this as an assault, you’re right on a lot of points, but you’re giving hero’s a rating while you use hero’s with a 10* silver or 5* gold.
I really agree that a lot of hero’s are useless for me because I made them plat or gold, and I would turn back time to reduce stars or metal type.
But since this isn’t an option I’d rather see more of the useless hero become useful then nerf the ‘god’ teir and break this game so much all of us want to quit
Thats why Butter can’t be in god tier. Smart piloting needed here, while they concantrate in butter, i could hit their panzer/dog with all i have, this happenen countless times some worked, some not. Other occasions, Butter can make a team afloat. Provided the opponent doesnt have a Strong, well protected Anvil.
I mean, one thing that is good with new Pvp updates are, combat getting varied on different situtations. Dogface shines a lot of them. He can’t be competitive tier, maybe not TOP-GOD tier sometimes depending on situation but not competitive either. There is simply too much gap between god and competitive tier here.
I agree your point on Dogface vulnerable to a very good player with stuns and timely interruptions. I gave rolling example just to show initial panzer assault can be avoided, then panzer is less dangerous. Yes, panzer or mauler can roll and escape dogface’ skills too, but generally dogface is a dps with sustained damage whilst panzer is not.
I don’t have Cinder in plat so i will be testing what you have said. Yesterday heard that Vanguard plat is strong but my friend tells me after some testing, he’s not that good as expected. Don’t know can’t say anything myself. Will be testing soon.
Though the list gave me a new view of pvp and looking forward to test some of these heroes. So thank you. Also, I wish there was a published a team composition list such as “Mauler-İfrit-Halo-Caine-Moss” team which is very effective.
Mandrake isn’t godlike, he is competitive. He is only useful for his gold, but a good player is not irritated by that to much. It can save you if the opponent misses one or two crucial shots because of it, or if the AI is losing its focus.
Dogface is god like. He is like Panzer, just the other way around. Panzer is strong the first 30 seconds, D9gface gets strong after 20 seconds. And he is build for dummys. You do not even have to have proper aim, since he just shoots through the covers. If you save your team until his silver and bronze are ready, you get a 5-0 in 90% of the matches.
Ronin is only competitive if you min max with him, since his HP is quite low and you won’t find many competitive heroes that trigger his plat.
Thanks for the informative response. I see where you’re coming from now and did realize after I posted that the draft events took plat skills out of the equation. You raise a lot of valid points!
I do not think Prophet is at garbage/viable tier. At least competitive tier.
True that Dogface almost kills Prophet at the start of the game, but Prophet can deal massive damage to biochem heroes. Or Prophet is also a stronger version of Sentry (Considering Phantom Shot makes him invisible, so I guess Aimed Shot and Cloaking Field combined?)
I think Sentry is better than Prophet. I have Sentry at 8* and Prophet at 7*. The fact that Sentry can hold 6 ammo is great compared to Prophet’s silly 3 rounds.
Also Aimed Shot deals tremendously more damage than Phantom Shot (152K elemental compares to 90K neutral damage) and Sentry also have more health than Prophet. Add to that Sentry’s stagger rounds, he’s definitely the winner.
I had the same opinions when they both were 7*.
Plx review again (Or because people have much more access to Sentry frags to Prophet frags)
True that Sentry’s Bronze deals much more damage to enemies, but Prophet’s Bronze can allow him to go invisible for 20 seconds (I believe so) so it fulfills his description as a Phantom Assassin and until u apply all three Amp Up’s, Prophet deals so much more. Plus, pairing with Halo’s plat, his gold triggers her plat skill so yeah.
Or HHG just needs to buff Prophet a little bit more?
The thing with Prophet is that i have never gotten all 3 amp ups in PVP. It’s not worth the hassle. He’s slow as it is with his constant reloads. Also his invisibility isn’t something to rely on, a smart player will still figure his position out since you’ll see from where his big blue shots emerge from.
I don’t see the Halo argument as a selling point since almost any skill in the game will trigger her platinum.
Sentry is my energy sniper boi.
Well, your choice mate
I still prefer Prophet (Mainly because of his looks) and his Bronze is kinda cool for giving a 20 second invisibility
Here I let them run on auto against a bio bounty target and as your can see Sentry is exactly 260% better!
Do you BTW have Prophet now or are you speculating based on your expectations on him?
They are close to each other for frigging god!
Yes sentry is better in damage taken and slightly better at damage to bounty
Wow Cinder’s plat actually works the way its supposed to now? Better bring back my cover destroy team. Makes me understand why Baron is in viable tier. Even against Panzer you could start as him, destroy her cover and few others, then switch to Cinder with boosted attack and lay into panzer. Im gonna have to try that once I plat her and Baron.
I’ve moved Ronin up a few spots after spending some more time tweaking his lineup. He just does some disgusting things with the right team, I’d even be willing to put him above Dogface if my games continue to go as they are now. I also added Prophet (accidentally edited him out earlier) back into Viable tier, my experience has been that his abilities are too slow to make him competitive.
@scape211 Yes. Cinder’s plat was bugged for at least a month this fall but even when it worked before it would only trigger off enemy cover. My initial tests with her this month show that it seems to trigger of ALL cover now. Baron + Cinder + Keel is the core of a pretty good team. One issue is that Baron tends to commit suicide with his Center of Attention. The Center of Attention HP bonus for Baron is downright pathetic compared to the massive damage he takes from a long-term taunt. Even without that problem, plat Panzers simply make frontline energy tanks non-viable. My 8* Plat Baron has just under 500k HP, but an 8* Plat Panzer has no problem dealing that kind of damage in under 10 seconds. You eventually have to switch off Baron anyway to take advantage of Cinder’s crazy DPS but she still struggles with Mandrake + Plat Nightingale + Flatline teams… bursting an invisible hero through flatlines heal is not easy and there’s a good chance between those 3 heroes you’ll end up spending a lot of time stunned anyway.
Yes I have heard Ronin becomes like Dogface with both skills activated DPS levels once enough of honorbond triggers. Seems very viable, but an interesting line you have to ride since it benefits from death. Definitely need to play with him more.
Cinder is awesome to hear about. I will definitely check her out. And I totally agree on Baron - the guy takes way too much heat without have enough support. If he got a little more health, had a better heal from Center of Attention, or got some kind of a shield (maybe a small one that can stack per cover he destroys?) he might be viable. Very hard in this panzer driven meta though.
It does make me see why Vangaurd can actually work here. Not only is his plat ability awesome at keeping the team alive, he’s usually an easy target to bait a panzer into. Vanguard is not really a threat aside from his plat, but as a frontline energy hero Panzer can kill him easily in the beginning of the match. However, if she does she wont have much steam for the rest of the team after that and her usefulness declines after that opening barrage. Still, you do end up down a man and is Vanguard as bait really better than Mandrake? I personally dont think so, but maybe while he is on cooldown.
Ronin’s plat doesn’t benefit from death at all. The benefit is reduced by 1 charge for every allies that dies actually.
It should always be run so that all 4 of his allies are below his Max HP, that gives him a massive damage boost while giving a significant amount of HP to his “squishy” allies. He basically starts the round as a fully powered Dogface that doesn’t care much about elemental affinity (meaning he can burst down mechs if necessary).
Only teams where it gets dicey are big plat Panzers but if you run the right supports you can handle them too. Plat Mauler could give him trouble too but it depends on what kind of supports Ronin has.
Oh. Did it used to benefit from death? I seem to remember it had a death mechanic before? Seems even easier to crush with him now though!