Forceful's January PvP Tier List


I played her extensively earlier this week for the express purpose of making sure she got proper placement on this list.

On paper she’s absolutely competitive and her spread reduction was a lovely buff. But the meta has been massively oppressive to Bio DPS and unlike Mauler, Odachi, or Artemis, Cinder doesn’t really have a method for dunking early in the match. She has to build her stacks and by the time she’s ready to go HAM with Acid Bomb and ridiculous weapon damage, she has often has to deal with a Flatline being protected by 1 or more shields. My Cinder is 12.8k power, a Defender Shield from a 12.8k Butter takes roughly 800,000 damage for me to clear off Flatline. It just doesn’t work when the other Godly/Competitive DPS will have shredded your support in the meantime.

Also keep in mind that unlike Ronin, her weapon bonus is elemental, which is a big problem with so many energy heroes around.

Edit: Even in the elemental brawl it was a big problem that Cinder had to wait for stacks to begin doing serious damage, everyone is trying to kill a hero in the first 20 seconds and Cinder really struggles to play catch-up.

Very nice analysis, I don’t agree with Nightingale though as God tier, I would place her down 1 rank but that is just my personal feeling

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If you play her with Phalanx, Panzer and Baron she gets a good bonus within the first 15 seconds. She will have 3 or 4 buffs already. But yes she is best if the match lasts longer. With 12 broken covers she is an unstoppable monster. And of course Halo and Flatline are meta at the moment and she has the weak element against them. For me she is still competitive though, since she performs great against teams without them.
But personal opinions differ and depends on the way you look at her, she isn’t wrong in viable.

With 800k damage to do you mean to kill flatline and not just to get rid of the shield? Since my butter at 8* plat, level 75 skill casts a 220k shield, it should be to kill her off. Just want to make sure that HHG didn’t forget to update the skill description. Wouldn’t be the first time.

Big jump for Francoise. Mind sharing the reasoning behind it?

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Shields and elements interact in very interesting ways, clearing a shield off energy heroes with bio damage is a nightmare.


It’s the shotgun pellet changes, I figured it out like 2 days into the December patch when Mandrake started chunking enemies for half their health with his silver. Panzer getting nerfed at range helped too since I was able to have heroes stay alive long enough to get invigorate. I realized that with a proper setup Fran could make a team extremely difficult to kill while also providing an overwhelming offensive option that could blow through any opposing heals. I tried it out in the last Draft Brawl (Gold) and it was undefeated. It all boils down to piloting Francois and swapping to take advantage of the fact that Swig+Shotgun = Sex.

One thing I forgot to say in my earlier posts is that notwithstanding some flaws in pvp that can be improved on, there are some positives compared to where we were a couple months back.

These are the ones off the top of my head:

  • Nightingale healing adjusted
  • Mauler crit more balanced now
  • Match length slightly faster
  • DPS options with Mauler/Halo and Ronin, and Panzer has been adjusted. Jarek looks decent for DPS too

Hoping for better improvements in the next update starting with an adjustment to bring more active skills into play (and perhaps, deal with some imbalanced passive skills like Flatline’s gold which has been mentioned).

Plz tell me some good PvP teams (for reference) :frowning:

Plat Nightingale with the Legendary Skin is one of the best heros in the game in my opinion. the Stabilize skill is a complete gamechanger and the Heal wave helps give everyone a quick boost in health while Stabilize is working.

Plat skinned Gale USED to be one of the best heroes in the game. She’s still solid, but she’s definitely not top tier anymore after her most recent nerf. She’s finally in a great place balance-wise, which is incredibly refreshing after her period of absolute dominance.

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Savage joke for garbage tier.
“I would like to roast you but burning trash is bad for the environment”

God Tier:
Ronin, Mauler, Flatline, Mandrake, Nightingale.

Competitive Tier:
Heimlock, Phalanx, Keel, Halo, Dogface, Caine, Butter, Francois, Panzer, Min, Castellan, Bolt, Ifrit, Moss, Razorback, Odachi, Kobold, Hardscope, Vanguard, Artemis.

Viable Tier:
Baron, Cast, Gammond, Clyde, Kunoichi, Kaishi, Operator, Sapphyr, Jarek, Cinder, Hideo, Wesson, Oracle, Sentry, Anvil, Cross, Callidus, Prophet, Hivemind, Ghoul, Brogan, Maven.

Garbage Tier:
Beck, Halloway, Salvatore, Savage, Steele, Surge, Elite Rifleman, Scum, Phoenix, Heckler, Matador, Fischer, Galante, Chesterfield, Ryker, Pris, Fortress, Yanlong, Richter

Is the above information more or less accurate on today’s hero meta?

i agree. Even if she you don’t use her to damage enemies, getting rid of cover is very useful

Mostly correct with a few changes. I don’t have the patience to go through every hero, but here’s the changes I personally would make that affect the current ‘god tier’ standings.

Mauler: Move down to low competitive
Gale: Move down to mid competitive
Matador: Move to mid/high competitive
Butter: Move to low god tier (currently he’s missing from the list entirely…?)
Caine: Move to low god tier or very high competitive

Move Heckler and Scum to viable tier and bring Panzer down to viable tier.

I’d agree to disagree on those, but your mileage may vary.

Changes I think need to be made are highlighted. Most of the competitive tier I took out would probably go to viable. Keel is borderline god I would say. Same with Heimlock, Ifrit (especially before nerf), and Night. Moss and Odachi are border line viable. Same with Dog maybe?

I tried many games with ronin and flatline, I find they are only viable level.

How far are they upgraded???

Ya, you really need them upgraded right to take full advantage of the team combo. Ronin needs to have the most HP so his Honorbound works on everyone, bringing all other heroes hp up 200k+ and also increasing Ronin’s damage by 3k per hero.

This is why you usually see 10* 5 bar plat Robins with teams of 3-4 bars, or a much higher power Ronin with weaker heroes when people are sandbagging.

My ronin is 7 stars, Plat 2 and my Flatline is 5 stars Plat 2 both are level 75. I tried many games with them, didnt like them at all. Always damage so low.

I use Kunochi instead. He is 6 stars / Plat 0. And it gives better results.