Diminishing returns for stacked heals/shields


#1

So pvp used to be a DPSfest, which frankly was great; get in and get out fast, win or lose. Now it’s an exercise in stacking healers or rezzers or shielders or some combo of the above. And it’s agonizing. I want an “F this match” button to just forfeit.

I know this will generate some disagreement, but from a scale perspective, the Panzer nerf went too far. Her scaling is jacked. At 30k power groups and below, she’s still tough as nails. At 45-50k she’s only a nuisance. At platinum, you can dump 2 magazines from her shotgun and a Breach into a platinum Flatline or Nightingale and they’re still at 1/4 life. This is ridiculous. Half her shots miss, another quarter are lost in cover.

Dogface is still good for 1-2 kills per power mag and she’s supposed to be an early match version of him, but that’s been stripped from her, so what exactly is her niche? Just my $0.02. She’s still usable, just not impressive in the current shield/rez/heal meta, which brings me to the real problem.

The cross healing / cross rezzing is akin to an anesthetic-free vasectomy. So here’s what I’d like to propose. Rezzers can NOT be rezzed. I’d also like to see diminishing returns for heals and shields. So as an example if your team has: 1 healer = 100% skill effectiveness, 2 healers = 10% reduction in heals for both. 3 healers = 20% reduction in heals for all 3, and so on. And I would treat the Butters / Heimlock / Phalanx shield stack garbage with the same smackdown.

Let’s get back to quick and dirty dps fights and stop this other nonsense.


#2

I fully agree on your Panzer view and I would much rather have Shoot to kill fights than heal/Shield/revive fights that what we are having now.


#3

Yuuuuuuuup. Ifrit is still ridiculous and the whole rezzing mechanic is such an unwelcome ability in any shooting game overall.

Honestly, I’d personally be in favor of HHG just straight removing both Ifrit and Flatline from the game and refunding any gold/materials/bucks dumped into those characters. They are huge misses - nut up and admit it, fix it, and move on.


#4

I’ll wait the coming update out for the change to damage dealers etc, stunners and other support besides health.

But I completely agree with the f this button, waiting 3 minutes to just keep 1 hero alive isn’t worth the time


#5

+1 for the F this button.


#6

I feel the problem lies with the simplicity of the game. All heroes are basically the same variation of a basic idea, with skills to spice things up. We need controllers that can lock down a single enemy indefinitely, but do little damage. We need penetration damage that bypasses shields. We need more comprehensive heal blocks.

There should be no meta that does not have a counter. Bring all healers and get melted by a heal block team. Bring all DPS and get blocked by shields. Bring one strong plat with 4 bronze and watch as a silver controller locks that character down from doing anything while the rest of your team gets melted. Weapons don’t have to just do damage. Nerf pris to just deal 1 damage but stagger with each hit. Make Callidus heal block on hit. There is so much you can do to make each meta team bustable.


#7

Totally disagree about the Panzer comment. My lowly 7* plat Panzer can melt a same power Nightingale or Flatline, no problem. Maybe she can’t if they are way higher power level?

There is a reason the meta now is pretty much Panzer/Ifrit/Flat and then the last two spots are more heals or support (Heimlock, Caine, Nightingale, or Mandrake).

Dog is literally the only other DPS in the game that can dish out as much burst DPS as Panzer, and he can’t do it immediately like her. He needs to wait 20 seconds.


#8

I would love a “F this” button. PvP has become a complete joke and everyone just sets up a nightingale, ifrit, flatline, hemlock and dogface or Panzer combo. All the fun of PvP has been removed from the game. Now it’s a pathetic grind to get to where you earn the frags and quit playing in that event (atleast that’s how I play it) get the 40 frags and move on. No point in playing PvP beyond that. Matches take too long and everyone stacks heal/rev/shield teams. Go back to PvP before July update or remove PvP all together cause the way it is, it’s a complete waste of time


#9

honestly i like the surrender button (im fine with all my heroes lost lived when surrender),

and as for the meta, as far as i know dps do decent against healers, healers do decent against death denial (only 1 reliable death denial hero i think?), death denial do decent against DPS and so on, while disabler is fairly against others.

that’s what i’ve observed with my 1month old account (please spare and correct me if i’m wrong)


#10

Mauler, maybe Pris (she has lower health than Sentry, so she is not a valid option, imo)

Yanlong

Sure, they are kinda unused heroes (I’m starting to see more Mauler, since he basically counters Panzer/Dogface min-maxing), but at least we have these mechanics


#11

Ya, there isn’t much point playing past your top 10 heroes or so (or rather, your own Ifrit/Night/Caine/Flatline/Panzer/Dog/Mandrake/Heimlock). Once you use them up you have very little chance of beating any teams since most will have at least 3-4 of those heroes on theirs. It’s just a non-stop losing streak. I try and get in the 1000-2500 rank because it’s super easy to maintain then I don’t bother PVPing for 80% of the tournament. Why give other people super easy wins with team comps that can’t come close to competing?


#12

“F this” button FTW. panzer with heimlock and revivers… insta F this


#13

I have to agree with the sentiment about panzer and dogface, I don’t even use them in pvp because I like a challenge. Every time I see someone using them for every pvp I’m like come on, really?!? :roll_eyes::thinking:


#14

Don’t get me wrong, certain events give bonuses for panzer. In those situations I understand completely.


#15

PvP has become a total bitchfest. Almost every team I play against has ifrit, flatline, nightingale, hemlock and panzer or dogface. Who can bring a bigger bitch team is the team that wins. Heal/revive is a complete joke and there is no fix in sight. PvP draft isn’t gonna fix a damn thing


#16

What…? Have you not been paying attention at all? The Role Warfare initiative is literally in the process of rolling out. Inform yourself before spouting nonsense please.


#17

Clearly breaking hero’s into roles isn’t gonna fix the ridiculous heal/revive problem that has been going on for the last 2 updates. So dog and panzer will still be damage dealers, Callidus and Butter will be damage eaters and so on but nothing is being done about the never ending heal/revive which is what my comment was about. Take a moment to actually understand what I wrote before you spout off a rebuttal


#18

wow, you really seem don’t like healing that much
i mean that’s just preference man, PvP not broke just because not to your liking but because others factor

so maybe, just maybe you could do blitz strat with team comp of powerful DPS that can kill 1-2 before the healing/revive process is happening or out-damage the healing/revive?like dogface, clyde, panzer (God, i hate her!) etc

happy pvp’ing man


#19

Let’s just wait for the next update.

And the only real problem I have with panzer and dogface is the health they have compared to the other dps hero’s.

In a 1vs 1 fight between panzer and odachi, panzer would win because of the health and the reload interruption, if in this case odachi had more health he could avoid the shots until panzer was empty, then take het down, same goes for dogface.

So instead of seeing them nerfed, I’d like to see a buff on other hero’s.


#20

Right, which is why I said to get informed before complaining. They’re not simply “breaking hero’s (sic) into roles”, they’re reevaluating and rebalancing those roles entirely. This means that dps heroes will be getting reworked to better fulfill their role. Right now, the problem with healing is that the healing role is the only one that’s been worked on. Once the rest of the roles get adjusted to match, things are meant to be balanced.

So yes, we’re in an awkward ‘growing pains’ state right now, but it is currently being worked on, which is what I addressed in my last reply, since you explicitly stated the nonsense that “there is no fix in sight”

That’s exactly what I did.