Alliance Wars Needs Improvement

When Alliance Wars (AW) first came out and we got to test it out in Beta, it was amazing. All of us had so much fun. Six (6) Alliance’s on one map, 150 players fighting for sectors, and the wheels were spinning on how to out strategize your opponent. In my humble opinion, I believe AW is the greatest asset Hero Hunters has to offer for team work. PvP is fun and who doesn’t like to kill an enemy rival; but AW brings us all together on one map where you can only win through team work.

As the seasons went on and a few additions got added by HH, alliances Began to scheme and plan on how to to manipulate AW. Not only that, but a new word developed in AW that has become far to familiar, “Truce!” “Let’s truce” “wanna truce” “If you don’t truce with us, our allies will attack you.” All of a sudden, AW turned in Capitol Hill of politics. Alliance’s formed multiple sister alliance’s to control and intimidate other alliances. Back door deals were made to hand over territory/sectors to boost Season Ranking scores. Favors were called upon from prior seasons to deal in new seasons. And it just kept getting worse. The idea of actually battling became a thing of the past.

Current problems include:

-Alliance’s min/maxing overall power to maximize a better matchup.

-Alliance Power match ups in AW. 44mil paired with a 51mil alliance, 28mil vs 37mil, and so on.

-Sister Alliance’s Created and power levels equaled to be paired on same map.

-And more…

This is not a bash on AW or other alliances at all. This is a discussion on how all of us can address the current problems and make constructive recommendations to HHG to better AW. AW right now is way to easy for experienced players and alliances to manipulate. Case and point: This last war, WSIDE and M7RC took a stand to bring the current problems to light. We choose VRIJ on our map (unknown to them) and then offered them all our sectors to boost their points and season ranking. VRIJ did not ask, request, or even know about it until offered. WSIDE Commander and I decided change needed to happen and the best way to show everyone how bad it could be manipulated was through actions. Did we cheat, no, but we manipulated AW. There are several other alliance’s which have been doing this and other schemes for several seasons and enough was enough. What we did caused a lot on controversy and complaining. Well, that was the point!!

Let’s get AW back to what it is supposed to be; a friendly 3vs3 battle of wits, strategy, and dedication of players willing to pay attention for 3 days of defenses and battle points.

Recommendations:

-Randomly select 3 Alliance’s and force them to be ally’s.

-More power brackets.

-Better tier bracket on reaching 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc… in Rankings.

-And more…

I don’t pretend to have all the answers, but I know several of my fellow gamers have some great ideas they want to recommend. So, please take the time and make some great recommendations of how we all can improve AW and hope HHG takes them to heart to make the game we all love better.

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Hothead reads all forum posts and collects all feedback for internal discussion, though I will remind everyone, for the fourth time today, to follow the feedback guidelines posted in the FAQ if you want your feedback considered by us. Otherwise, it’s just a nice discussion among fans.

Nothing wrong with that, but prescriptive feedback isn’t something we’re looking for. Thanks!

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Alliance War is a very fun, and challenging game mode. It’s one of my favorites. But recently, all I’m seeing is more and more truces, and less actual strategy and war. I got nothing against having a truce with another alliance. But when an alliance grabs an early 1st and begs for a truce from everyone, I find that incredibly annoying. Truces cover the battlefield a little to much right now, in my opinion.

Another thing I’m noticing is sister alliances teaming up against a single alliance. It has happened to my alliance multiple times. It’s not fun being attacked from 4 sides at once, and very frustrating when your boxed in with almost nothing to do. :wink:

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Truce is one of those reasons for which I was changing my alliance regularly… Can’t find a single ally who has effective strategies & good members so, I made my own… The most simplest way to make AW enjoyable is that there is no way… And I am sure devs are trying hard to make this game more enjoyable… But,as time passes & people getting more maturity… They’ll soon understand that truce is the last beat plan to insure beat possible rewards… Or just don’t play for rewards…

I repeat…there is no way… & I am damn sure about my OPINION

I’m 100% whit you Marine

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I second those points Jado.

War outcomes is usually heavily swayed by whoever has the most players online at the start, so they can race to the middle zones and then truce as much as possible to solidify themselves. Personal factors like timezones and availability can hinder an alliance’s performance just because of that reason.

War is now nothing but truces and manipulation to ensure your team rises to the top, with deals being made behind backs (such as being friendly with a random alliance and making them target your other truced alliance to ensure they don’t catch up in points), and lots of backstabbing truced alliances as they lower their defenses around you.

It can be argued that this is the proper nature of war, and how you should keep your cards close and play them right for victory, however it takes out the fun and the strategy in Alliance Wars and now every war is practically the same. Race to the middle, truce, you’ve basically won. Rinse, repeat.

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War is definitely my favorite part of the game and I applaud the devs for implementing it. I think trucing and sabotaging are natural aspects of war and stopping that in this game would take a massive overhaul of the war set up (such as forcing 3v3 with auto pairing).

A simpler fix that would help several aspects would be increasing the number of brackets, decreasing the power range in each bracket and then completely randomizing the matchups in each bracket. this would result in 1) Less gaming the system in match ups and 2) Extra brackets adds incentive for lower alliances to increase their power to receive better rewards in higher brackets instead of intentionally staying at the bottom of the strongest bracket and facing weaker alliances.

Also, you should repost this however Munnin is asking so something actually happens and they have less of an excuse to ignore your VERY valid points.

Sheesh Muninn…how do you really feel? LMAO

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Very Respected Long-Time Community Member:
“Here is a well-reasoned post explaining some issues we face currently and some ideas on how the developers could go about addressing them”

HHG Community Manager:
“Here is a dismissive response, citing the FAQ because I don’t actually care enough to give more than 1% effort, despite you being such a great supporter of our game”

Yikes. Glad to see the game is still right where I left it when I quit. Never change Muninn. Not that you had any plans to.

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Marine you can make all the posts you want but nothing will change …, the problems you listed are true but you gave the whole map to Vrij in protest … they are the architects of many things that you have listed (stupid move), and the other alliances have learned from them, you cannot favor them and then complain, however in my opinion there are 2 causes because everything will remain so, HH does not care to improve the war because it is okay or they don’t have the skills, now we have given them many tips that should have done something …

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To be clear: I replied asking for feedback framed a certain way so we can best use it. If anyone feels that asking that feedback be presented in a way that allows us to process it and make potential changes is dismissive, then I don’t know what to tell you.

I’ve basically told you how to best be heard by us. I gave you the cheat code to win the game. I’m not sure what else I can do to help. I won’t be bringing it up anymore. If you don’t read developer posts when we take time out of our work days to engage and guide you in a direction that best uses your own time, then we may not read or reply to feedback posts in the future.

Thanks!

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I agree that some wars everyone just truces and the war sucks. I think that maybe a random truce generator gets put into the war maybe. So it guarantees 2v2v2 imo. Or there’s like a button that can be sent between commanders for a truce. Once both accept. No more truces can be made. That’s just my two cents

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No just no that would be horrible

I dont put blind faith into marine’s gripes. The community shouldn’t either.

He tried to create an alliance to go against the grain and failed miserably.

No alliance has ever won a season without help. To think the issues could be changed overnight or any time soon is laughable.

Let me see if I can take a stab at this, Muninn. Granted, I read the FAQs on Feedback giving just now. I also read and re-read the article posted through Polygon that is cited. It was a novel, to say the least. I will attempt to make this as succinct as possible, but no promises.


Preface: I love Alliance Wars. The addition of this part of the game was incredibly unique. It reminded me of various other games I’ve played in the past that had mini-games, so-to-speak, that were games within themselves.

For example: Final Fantasy and Chocobo races. Time Splitters and Snake and/or create-a-map mode.

It is unique, it is similar to some strategy board games I’d play when I was younger, and it has its own game style every war week. There are times where I am literally on edge with adrenaline during some days, because of what’s going on in the map and how various strategic moments play out or fail. More on that below.

With that being said, I can only explain certain likes and dislikes from my own perspective as a gamer, so now I will try, based on what I’m seeing and based on how I’m feeling when I’m seeing various scenarios. Now for the short story? I hope.


I feel like Alliance Wars did a vast amount of things, including highlighting various aspects of the game. Some of these highlights may be (but are not limited to):

  • the communicative nature of this game (which, I may add, the community is one of the most fervent and unique of all the mobile games I’ve ever played)
  • the politics of the game (alliance feuds, player feuds, who considers themselves the ‘best’)
  • rankings (as opposed to PVP rankings, bounty rankings, now war rankings, etc.)

We are now deep into wars and many fixes and implementations have taken place. I will not get into any of that here. Reason being, that is the past. I can’t discuss wars pre-doubling of BP for Sneak Attack, for instance, simply due to the fact that we are no longer there. We are here, in the present, with war as it is now.

I also have a very unique stance regarding wars only due to the fact that I have had the opportunity to be amongst various alliances of different power brackets. My alliance map has been: Competitive Gaming -> Tachyon -> Soul Reavers -> Scoobysnacks - > EXTAC. I bring these up only to illustrate that I haven’t been in one alliance and I’m not stuck in just one perspective since inception. In fact, I understand all the complaints AND joys of wars.

So let’s discuss a typical war week from my perspective.

By now, a typical war start is determining, either by experience or by early head counts, who will be on for war and who won’t be on for war. In Soul Reavers, it is known who will be commanding ahead of time. My officers there also know how to set beacons to direct flow of traffic at start. They know how to rush mid. With my main account no longer there, their wars are very balanced. It feels relieving for me knowing Soul Reavers are self-sufficient. It took many months to get there. Some alliances can not say any of this.

However: When my main was in Soul Reavers, I was a heavy weight to the alliance. I was both a blessing and a curse. I became both the carrier AND the handicap for them. They knew nothing else. Soul Reavers was created to educate newcomers, to which I succeeded. They are self sufficient now. However, it eventually became apparent that my weight handicapped them into a bracket we were terribly unprepared for. Not by lack of experience, mind you. We were unprepared for the power differentials of the alliances we would be facing. Not to mention the high powered KLG heroes. My alliance mates were growing increasingly frustrated at being unable to take down KLG hero sectors. I became frustrated knowing more time would have to be spent on my end managing my defenses forward to protect my team from becoming annihilated (behind where I placed my teams). Sometimes on this day 1, I knew we were about to battle 2-4 alliances at the same time. It was going to be a long war.

We would find out real fast if we were facing a min-max alliance similar to what we were or not. Most of the time during the end of my reign there on my main, we had other enemies doing the same thing as us (weak players surrounded by 1-5 very strong players within the alliance). It was both a frustrating and a welcome battle for us, but other alliances who are not prepared do not fare well.

I have realized that the various brackets have their own strategies, as well as ‘problems’. Some of these were highlighted above, I believe. Much of the communications about wars is highlighting some of these. However, it is almost always prescriptive feedback. So let me try to continue to add some of the emotionality that hopefully helps more…in part two…

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Continued from above…pt. 2.

In another alliance, not being able to count on some people being on at war reset is the most debilitating and depressing part of some wars for some alliances. This is why many of the alliances who are war-heavy in this game, have been using Discord. It is a way to ping members to be on, to consider strategies, to share images, to voice chat, to share pictures of maps, etc. It is a way to communicate on top of the game, especially if chats go down. And this is important.

When our chats go down for war, most alliances don’t have any other way to communicate strategy amongst one another to be as effective as they could be. Hence, Discord helps alleviate this, somewhat. However, it’s never going to be a full fix as the first 5-10 minutes on a Monday war day pretty much define some of the higher powered wars of the week. I feel like I’m lucky to have Discord as an option. However, in Soul Reavers, I made it mandatory as it can be an essential piece to HH, especially during those chat downages. Those who use Discord can facilitate what alliance members do what, i.e., who is a war commander, who is going to deal with ‘alliances’ or politics, who is tasked with buying various war perks, etc. Those without Discord can still use this form of strategy, but with chats being frequently down, I’ve seen and experienced: frustration, low morale moments, ‘controller throwing fits,’ etc. Thankfully I’ve been through enough wars to have various scenarios under my belt. I already know what to do depending on some situations.

The start of war for many alliances involves knowing who will be online or not knowing and facing the very real moments of not having as many players as you would like online as you expected. This is a very frustrating time for many. I’ve seen alliances collapse because of this alone. Some will leave to go to more active alliances that are more war heavy and thusly, those who have more online at war reset. Discords become mandatory. Top 5 power ranges of a certain amount became essential. The search for other players who have a strong top 20 hero roster is supreme.

The start of war also then involves perks vs. alliance setting. One person is unable to do this alone. Both are time consuming, require a vast amount of participation and teamwork, and require some planning. Perk setting is pretty self-explanatory, but it’s important to note that in early alliance wars, perks are unnecessary. At some point, Sneak Attack comes into play. But before that? It’s never used. Why is this? Alliances simply don’t have enough war coins to spend on this perk because they are still using the gear they gather to building their roster. I don’t know exactly when Sneak Attack comes into heavy play, but I can assure you that prior to 10 mil alliance wars, it is NEVER used. There’s no point. Alliances amongst enemy alliances aren’t made at these level wars either.

Alliance setting: usually a dedicated war commander or ‘war politician’ sets these up. It can involve scouting enemy bases to determine who are neighboring and distant alliances or it can involve just running into alliances and seeing who is most active. It is a battle of who can type fastest to set these up. Setting up alliances must be made early on, as these end up deciding the tide of the battle. It is both exhilarating and terrifying knowing a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ to an alliance suggestion will be made in the following moments while various sectors are being grabbed. It is a game of chess…let’s see where our pieces fall and MAYBE just maybe, we will agree to your truce. But before we respond, ‘we are gonna grab these spots first to secure them. Or rather, give us some of those and we will give you some of these. Or rather, help us attack X and we will help you attack C. Here’s a path…’.

Alliance setting is essential in later wars. It is also the source of much frustration. Without having a dedicated politician, many alliances are left to simply being slaughtered against multiple alliances who decided they want more of the map. Settling for top 3? ‘Hell yeah, because I still get Serial frags!’

And this is just day one of War. So off the bat, we feel the possibilities of: anxiety, frustration, hope, dashed hopes, unpreparedness, strategy, lack of funds, lack of necessary perks, non-communication with downed chats, use/non-use of Discord, politics/alliance setting, low participation vs. high participation. And lag.

On day one. A cluster of emotions. Which pretty much defines the coming week. But there is more to come!

Because now the dust has settled. War is on! Places are being set, sectors are being grabbed, alliances are being made, the anticipatory nature of tomorrow when points begin accruing is coming!

Day 2. Probably the second most important day of war, because this is the time to advance, defend, protect, make switches, renegotiate terms, hand over sectors, rearrange teams to include bonus/feature heroes…does this sound exhausting? Well, it is. Every effective war alliance has effective strategies to maintain consistent communication even during those moments when the in-game chat goes down or lag occurs, i.e. Discord. The exhaustion doesn’t stop. For now, during the most important hours of war, the map must be opened to watch for incoming attacks and to prevent them if possible. Shuffling, reshuffling, shifting teams is difficult when you are looking at the map from a top down perspective, one sector at a time. I consistently forget where I place my top teams and which sectors have which teams. It is a constant attention to detail of other sectors, especially those on the front lines, that makes some players feel like AW is a full-time job. Having a team effort reduces the strain of this load on any war commander, but simply managing one’s own sectors is VERY time consuming, stressful, and at times, paramount to a winning war. All it takes is one sector to have been forgotten…and that becomes the Achilles heel by which you can see devastating losses when an enemy intrudes into the territory. So a watchful eye amongst many in the alliance in a concerted effort is increasingly important in higher powered wars. It is the utmost winning strategy. Yet it is rare in itself.

Communication errors. Low participation rates. Various strategies on war start. Funds. Set roles amongst alliance mates. Alliance setting. Politics throughout the week. Managing teams.

All of these scenarios above add to the constant sway of so many emotions. I will continue more after war start. I will jot some notes down of the emotions I feel at the start during a very real war start instead of a perceived one and I will edit or add when I compile some things together to add more to this discussion, if possible as the week continues.

To those who have read this far: Muninn is asking for what we are feeling during very moments of war. Don’t suggest fixes. Simply state what is going on, how you are feeling when these things are going on, and what you are seeing. You can only ever speak from your own perspective! So speak up from your own perspective! And remember guys, the developers are only human too! Be kind and respectful! They are trying their hardest to manage a game of thousands upon thousands.

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This is the kind of thing I can process and take to the team.

Note to everyone: you don’t HAVE to go as in-depth, but this is an example of how to relay your experiences and frustrations in a productive way, that leaves us able to identify common experiences, determine root causes, and use our own design experience to find the best solutions.

Thanks!

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There’s a lot of positive and negative as highlighted by those above. We’re currently on Season 15, which means it’s been roughly a year and half since war was released in beta.

As a war coordinator, the burden can become heavy, hence why you see so many alliances decide to ‘Truce All’ or do what Marine < M7RC> and WSIDE did by throwing away a war to an alliance. I don’t subscribe to either school of thoughts because it’s not fair to my guys nor is it fair to the other alliances that are trying to play fairly by having 3 alliances decide to manipulate the system.

The solution is difficult, but here is a couple of thoughts:

  1. Reduce the points gained by holding on to tile, while increasing the points gained by successfully taking over a tile. The larger the total defensive power on the zone, the more points gain. This will punish the ‘Truce All’ folks because it openly encourages conflict and action.
  2. Make the minimum heroes on each defensive zones ‘5’. This will reduce tile swapping and openly waving the white flag
  3. Introduce some sort of role based War Stats. For example, guys like Butter, Kobold, Buckets, Matador, Razor should be put in the front line trenches. They should get a defensive boost as the pure defenders. Guys like Beck, Saph, Dog, Kuno, etc… should get a big offensive attack boost. If you want to use a sneak attack, they will need to deploy guys like Sentry, Gale, Prophet, etc… The current system openly encourages min maxing for people to only maximize the top 20-25 guys and have a bunch of gold/silver on the back end. By having a more role base characteristics, this will force people to make full use of their rosters.
  4. Take away the rush build in the first hour. Too many wars are decided in the first hour because of this. Taking this option away evens out the field a bit and make the sprint all the more exciting.
  5. This Auto 3v3 War opinion is a terrible idea. You might as well have a 1 on 1 war. If you want a 1v1 fight, go play PvP. War is meant to be chaotic and having this many party on a map does just that.

I hope these suggestions are helpful and it’s just my opinion. I don’t expect everything to be implemented right away, but it’s food for thought to improve the game.

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Cool story usmarine, you lost all credibility when you gave away your HQ.

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I completely agree with this. Recently retired, if there are no changes then the game is no fun anymore. I’m not the only one that feels like this.

We all know the unfortunate truth tho… they don’t care.

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